Scott Hanselman

2008 - Congratulations, America has a President-Elect

November 5, '08 Comments [72] Posted in Musings
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We have a new president here in the US. He is president-elect Barack Obama. This was a very long presidential race, long by even American standards. We're all exhausted from this race as a country and excited for January 20th, when the new president is inaugurated. It was a good race. John McCain gave a thoughtful and gracious concession speech. Barack Obama gave an inspirational acceptance speech.

My wife, Mo, voted in her first election as a US Citizen. My boys will grow up in a country that values people of all kinds, including ones that look like them. Voter turnout was at historic levels and was organized and peaceful - THAT is a testament to this country and what we stand for.


Now, let's get to work, America.

About Scott

Scott Hanselman is a former professor, former Chief Architect in finance, now speaker, consultant, father, diabetic, and Microsoft employee. I am a failed stand-up comic, a cornrower, and a book author.

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Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:18:34 AM UTC
It still amazes me that the same country that can elect Barack Obama can then turn around (in several state races) ban gay marriage (and gay adoption in at least one case). We might have come a long way but never forget we have a long way to go.
brad
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:21:19 AM UTC
As a husband of a Native American *and* having a family from the deep south - I am very happy about the outcome tonight and that our two children can grow up in a country there this is possible. Nice work America!
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:22:10 AM UTC
I have closely followed the Presidential election over the last 20 months and I would like to whole heartedly congratulate America for choosing a great leader for the next President.
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:26:17 AM UTC
Congratulations, Scott, and all other Americans :-)
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:57:49 AM UTC
<blockquote cite="Scott Hanselman>Now, let's get to work, America.</blockquote>
Because, in the grand scheme of things, choosing the next leader of the free world is so much less important than choosing which Microsoft web technology to use to implement the next World's Greatest Web Site :P
Michael Ratanapintha
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:26:28 AM UTC
I have to say - the whole thing brought tears to my eyes, as did the picture of your son. That's exactly part of the point and it's just great. In my lifetime is pretty amazing
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:26:46 AM UTC
MichaelR - Hah. I meant "get to work fixing America" not back to work blogging. ;)
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:31:25 AM UTC
Historic day for the World.
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:11:57 AM UTC
Congratulation America!
I am happy for what it means for your kids and feel proud for USA!
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:25:36 AM UTC
I'm very relieved. That was a good concession speech, showed some of the old McCain.
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:45:26 AM UTC
WooHoo America !
This gave a new hope for better world.
Petar Repac
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:19:20 AM UTC
The major TV channels here in Romania covered the American elections the whole night.

This shows how important these elections are, not only for the American people, but for the whole world.

Congratulations, America!
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:36:18 AM UTC
Congratulations America, congratulations all people in the world ... I believe all people here in (as Rumsfeld would say) good old Europe are very happy today.

Best regards from Germany,

Thomas
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:38:01 AM UTC
I'm very happy of what the Americans decided... The president of the USA is not just the president of the USA, but it all affect the whole World.
Let's hope for 8 years of peace and well-being for entire World.
Thank you again to all of you
Simo
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:47:17 AM UTC
A great day not only in America but in World's History. Greetings from France, thanxs for having made the right choice for America and for the rest of the world.
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:51:14 AM UTC
yes it is an historic moment in history.

Government is not the solution the problems. We have to give up freedom everytime they put their hands in something. I really hope that we see change and more importantly change for the better. I think we are really just going to see more of what we have ... More spending and less freedoms.

I do think it is great that America has a black president...after 43 white ones. I think from that aspect it is great. I hope it inspires others to go for their dreams, no matter the color of their skin. Race is a crazy issue...all men & women are created equally human.

I really wish Americans would stop looking to government to solve their problems. I don't care who gets in office...history shows they never solve our problems.
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:53:22 AM UTC
Brazil wait good news with Barak Obama. Brazil and world.

And this photo in post? This little boy? The next president of America?
:) hehehehehe

[]´s

Juliano Oliveira
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 10:31:46 AM UTC
The turn out of events in the US election has been extraordinary and indeed change has come to America extra. Obama has won the hearts of the people of the world and he has inspired many.
I hope the old unaccepting fools will begin to see dark skinned people as equals and work together for a better America.
AND please stop saying America's first black president.. this is not about race.. It about you.
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:03:49 AM UTC
Congratulations America, saw the news here in Israel. BTW I liked the photo of your son, that clip in the commode reminds me my house, avoiding my son of destroying the DVD :-)
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:19:04 AM UTC
Finally, the intense campaigning is over. I hope the democrats stay true to their word and go about making the "changes" they promised. With majorities in house, senate, and a president they can no longer make excuses about being blocked by republicans. I expect more accountability and less breaching of our rights.

I think it's cool he has a holiday named after him in Kenya, not everyone get's their own day.
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:21:50 AM UTC
Congratulations USA !

Finally the Bush days are behind us, and what a historic choice to usher in the next era.

-Farid
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 12:05:40 PM UTC
Good Comment from Lamin ;-).

Congratulations also from Germany, lets hope that Obama also will also be able to realize his and the Democrates's visions for America. It's better to be skeptic with politicians even if they've charisma as Obama :-).

Wednesday, November 05, 2008 1:03:56 PM UTC
The picture of your son made me tear up. I hope that America can now fulfill its promise.

I agree, it's time to get to work.
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 1:18:53 PM UTC
This election was all about protesting the Bush administration. I wouldn't read too much behind the Obama's victory. Anybody running for the Democratic party and backed up by the media would have won.
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:07:06 PM UTC
"My boys will grow up in a country that values people of all kinds, including ones that look like them."

Seriosuly Scott? They weren't valued until a socialist black man was elected?
Matt T.
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:17:51 PM UTC
"I hope the old unaccepting fools will begin to see dark skinned people as equals and work together for a better America."

I hope dark skinned people realize that most Americans aren't fools and see everyone as equals.

Ditto Gabriele Ponti and Matt T.

"We're all exhausted from this race as a country and excited for January 20th"

55,454,540 people aren't very excited.
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:50:07 PM UTC
Well said Scott. Hopefully this will change things
Jim
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:55:33 PM UTC
I just hope that Obama will show the wisdom the US needs as a leader. Today I see a man with a track record of supporting legislation to kill the unborn, and worse. His youtube talks to Planned Parenthood pulls no punches on his belilefs here. The media didn't show the world that.

Genetics shows the conceived fetus is a unique human being, not the mother or the father, with a unique brain-wave pattern. But our legislators want to have the right to kill it if it conveniences us to do so. How is this different than other genocides historically that have so appalled us, Darfur, the Holocaust, Nazi Germany, when 25,000 babies a WEEK are aborted now, and that is projected to rise another 125,000 deaths a year through the Freedom of Choice Act if passed? If you think otherwise, check out the videos on youtube showing the aborted fetuses and ask yourself if that's nto a human being that was just killed. The media does not want you to see that.

The US votes economy, no other issue is important to them.

It will be interesting to see the world reaction when through the Freedom of Choice Act the US attempts to coerce the third world into its policies on abortion rights. I suspect this will add further insult to the US relationship with an Islamic world that values the unborn a lot more than the Europe and the US do presently.

I pray that Obama, a very intelligent man, can proceed wisely in this area. It's great to improve the economy, and that's what most acre about, but a pattern is noticeable that a decay in morality has been the first step toward the demise of many civilizations if one is a student of history.

Thank you for reading my comment. I know I am in the minority on this belief, and the impacts of morality decay are easy to ignore.
Freddy
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 3:05:46 PM UTC
A tremendous amount of healing took place in America yeasterday. It took hundreds of years, but today the United States stands higher than ever before for equal opportunity and the fulfillment of dreams. Anyone, small or great, black or white, from afluent families or from poor ones can put forth the grit, singular resolve and purpose and become President of this amazing nation. Let it be known I did not vote Obama in this election, yet I am very proud to be an American today and the statement that our nation sent to the world. We can overcome our history, we can overcome our predjustic, and we can make our voices heard in one singular resolve. Thank you America for restoring my faith in people. May the healing continue.
Paul Eaklor
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 3:11:54 PM UTC
Not sure if his comment will stay, but I agree with Freddy. As cool as it is to have another tombstone on our country's racist past, the sad reality is your children are indeed lucky they can see this day- too many others did not have that chance.
Daniel
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 3:19:49 PM UTC
I'm with Matt T. Let's not get too excited about electing the first socialist president (although FDR was pretty close); a media-inspired frenzy that lacks any type of substance is all it is. A socialist president and a socialist congress, that scares the hell out of me. We will now see spending like we've never seen before. Honestly, I was never a huge McCain fan either, he was just the lesser of the two evils.

Jeremy - I'm one of the 55,454,540.

Having said all that, I'm a proud American, and I'm glad I live in a country that values freedoms like freedom of speech and the right to bear arms (I'm one of the people that still holds on to his religion and guns). Even though I knew what the outcome was going to be anyway, it was a privilege, and an honor, to vote yesterday. The fact that we can sit here and peacefully give our opinions should never be taken lightly; there are many today that don't have those freedoms.

Thanks Scott - the best to you and yours.
Mark S.
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 3:30:05 PM UTC
Freddy,

I'm with you. I didn't support him; but after watching the celebrations across the country and the world, I hope he uses this as an opportunity to unite the country.
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 3:58:09 PM UTC
A beautiful, powerful photo Scott. Thanks for posting it.
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 4:15:50 PM UTC
Congratulations on the new President! The media in Norway has covered the US elections very, very thorougly, so I'm quite happy it's over. And the best man, at least in my opinion, won.
The picture of your son is great as well. :)
Watching from the side lines, it'll be interesting to see how much change there will be. Anyway, getting a non-white guy as President signifies change already to me. :)
Kaisa
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:00:44 PM UTC
One thing that cannot be underestimated is how much morale affects people. You have to care in order to want to work hard. I am so relieved that America elected Obama (although I think McCain is a patriot who deserves our complete respect).

I will admit to being one of those American's who felt disenfranchised by the Bush administration over the last eight years.

Too bad they maxed out the credit card...it's going to be a long climb to get back to a national surplus.

Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:33:56 PM UTC
If you think you're going to get the tax cut Obama promised in his campaign, think again. Your taxes are going to increase.
Robert
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:41:00 PM UTC
Why is it that "socialist" is such a swear word in this country? Guys: think outside the box, and start taking a little responsibility for your fellow Americans who suffer and struggle. I thought it was just prooved that too little government is not the way to go.
It's truly a great day for America and (small) step in the right direction - but at the same time several steps back for California.
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:35:07 PM UTC
I'm very excited for our future. The right guy won this election. I love the kid-clip in your picture that protects your movies and DVR. :) I have kids too and appreciate their purpose. :)
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:40:28 PM UTC
@sharpgis

Socialism is a swear word because it takes power away from the people and places it squarely on the shoulders of the government. I have no desire to take responsibility for anyone except for my family and myself. I'm not responsible for someone else's poor choices.

Too much government is what got us into the financial problems we're in now. Freddie and Fannie were supposed to be regulated, but Congress would allow the regulator to regulate. It's a prime example of government destroying business. The same party that cause the Freddie and Fannie problem is now in complete control of our government.
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:17:18 PM UTC
@Robert

Not everyone is looking for a tax cut. That's certainly not the reason that I voted for Obama.

Taxes are what pay for the services and infrastructure that make America one of the best places to live in the world.
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:29:52 PM UTC
sharpgis - socialism isn't a swear word - it's just that many people here believe that big government is more likely to hurt than to help our fellow Americans. I do want to help others less fortunate than me. So I donate my money and time to causes I deem worthy. Americans happen to be the most generous nation in the world in this way. However, I believe that almost everything government touches, it breaks. Go to your DMV, talk to a VA administrator about paperwork, or read the tax code if you need examples. Given that, the best thing government can do for our suffering fellow Americans is to get out of the way and create an environment where they can benefit from the proven principals of capitalism and democracy. This environment may, in fact, include programs to assist those who truly need assisting, but more than anything should simply involve security and protection of basic human rights.
nony
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:59:43 PM UTC
Good responses everyone. Folks who are staying anonymous, feel free to leave your names if you like. I'm not going to think poorly of you for having an opinion. :) I won't delete comments unless they are bile-filled...I *rarely* delete comments.

That said...I didn't vote for Bush, but I felt hopeful when he was elected. He's still my president.

I don't personally think that Obama is a socialist, certainly not in a Marxist sense. Most Americans, I suspect, don't know what a socialist is, nor have they visited or lived in a socialist country. I think that there should be a balance between socialism and social responsibility. If we let the market run itself, we get into a pickle like we are now. If government intercedes too much, we get into trouble again.

I am hopeful. I would be hopeful if McCain was hired for the job. I think we had two good choices and two honorable men to choose from. We'll see if our hope is/was well-placed.



Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:00:42 PM UTC
Well said nony! And those examples you cite are exactly the reason government should not get into health care. Additionally, don't even think about "spreading the wealth" with my money.

At the end of the day, I don't care what color you are or what party you're from. as long as you're fiscally responsible, abolish ear-marks, and lessen the role of government in my life and let me live my life how I see fit.
Mark S.
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:21:05 PM UTC
Scott: Exactly! People here don't know what socialism is. They keep thinking it's all about government talking your freedom away (actually it's about giving opportunities which to me really is what freedom is about), or got their head brainwashed too much by McCarthyism.
I did live in a more socialistic country before moving to the US, and I do see some of those socialistic ideas that could be put to good use here. As Scott said, it's all about finding a balance. Believe me Obama is not the socialist everyone seems to think he is. Far from it.
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:26:02 PM UTC
Congratulations USA. You were lucky to have 2 such extraordinary candidates to choose from. Looking at the coming elections in Israel I can only envy you. I hope Obama will succeed in leading America to prosperity and success cause the way I see it a better America raises the water level for us all.
Arik Grinstein
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:26:04 PM UTC
Congratulations USA. You were lucky to have 2 such extraordinary candidates to choose from. Looking at the coming elections in Israel I can only envy you. I hope Obama will succeed in leading America to prosperity and success cause the way I see it a better America raises the water level for us all.
Arik Grinstein
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:27:52 PM UTC
the proven principals of capitalism

I thought they just got disproven :-)
I used to be a big fan of capitalism too, but after moving to the US, I completely changed opinion after witnessing the kind of society it results in.

What boggles my mind the most is that this is probably the only country in the world where people vote against their own interests. :-)
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:37:15 PM UTC
Congratulations, It seems this one made you more comfortable. :)
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 10:06:45 PM UTC
"Taxes are what pay for the services and infrastructure that make America one of the best places to live in the world."

No. What makes America the greatest place in the world is the opportunities that exist therein from the liberties we have.

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."
--Thomas Jefferson


Paul Johnson
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:19:37 PM UTC
Scott, it's too bad your kids have to see a black man elected who is a liar and a nutjob instead of someone they can admire. He's firmly in the pocket of the unions, trial lawyers and ultra-left-wingers and his only desire is to expand the American welfare state via 'wealth redistribution' (i.e. tax 'credits' and tax increases) and punish the America that he and his wife hate.

Too bad. Blacks should be ashamed that he represents them rather than a man who represents hard work and self-reliance. And all Democrats should be ashamed that they brought this nightmare on all of us.

Nice job, folks. Watch over the coming months and think about what you've done. Watch as tort reforms are rolled back and class-action lawsuits explode, as union voting becomes a farce where parasitic union goons intimidate our workers. Watch as Mexican criminals are granted amnesty and receive citizenship before scientists and entrepreneurs from other countries. Watch as the US embraces substandard healthcare and further underpays its embattled physicians...and take note as we become a laughingstock to both our enemies in the middle east and our "allies" in Europe.

Bob
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:33:03 PM UTC
@Paul

America is a great place, I won't deny it. I was born and raised in the USA and I have been able to work hard and create a good life for myself.

The greatest place in the world though? Really? I've lived in South Korea and Mexico for extended periods and have spent a bit of time in Japan, Germany, Austria, and Spain and have visited a lot of other places.

I think that countries are a bit like programming languages. They all have their strengths and weaknesses.
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:47:35 PM UTC
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Thomas Paine

The problem with socialistic tendencies in our country is you don't have a choice. You WILL contribute. I don't think it is my place to act a fuel for some grand social experiment.

Bill
Thursday, November 06, 2008 1:17:46 AM UTC
But it is fair to say that those who are judging Obama to be an evil socialist who can somehow be worse for the USA than Bush and Cheney were, are already "acting a fuel".
EricTN
Thursday, November 06, 2008 2:48:12 AM UTC
So, how 'bout that MVC Framework huh? Huh? Anyone?
Tim Merrifield
Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:03:20 AM UTC
Congratulations America. My faith has been restored. It is such an amazing diverse place where almost all living things are at the mercy of the human race doing the right thing, especially so for the leader of the mightiest nation on earth.
Calvin
Thursday, November 06, 2008 1:53:17 PM UTC
@Tim: LOL

Living in a social democratic country (Norway), I just don't get the whole "Socialism = Evil" vibe. On the other hand, charities and volunteering aren't very widespread here, so without a strong government, we'd have some serious problems.
Kaisa
Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:50:23 PM UTC
Scott Hanselman for President 2016

(here's hoping Barack will stick around for two terms)

(here's hoping that he'll stick around for two terms and not suck, i mean)

(here's hoping that Scott will bring SOA to the US Government)
Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:34:08 PM UTC
Oh, and for all you "less government" types, please let me refer you to this excellent book. One my all time favourites, though more inspirational than practical.


God and the State by Mikhail Bakunin


A quick quote from the book:

"The liberty of man consists solely in this: that he obeys natural laws because he has himself recognized them as such..."


"... because anger gets hold of me whenever I think of the base and criminal means which they employ to keep the nations in perpetual slavery, undoubtedly that they may be the better able to fleece them. Of what consequence are the crimes of all the Tropmanns* in the world compared with this crime of treason against humanity committed daily, in broad day, over the whole surface of the civilized world, by those who dare to call themselves the guardians and the fathers of the people?"

*note: "the Troppmanns of the world" refers to Jean Baptiste Tropmann, a French murderer, who was beheaded in France, in 1870, the same year this book was being written. This was a fairly historic event, which impacted many writers during this time. He became his era's symbolic socio-pathic killer.
Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:32:59 PM UTC
Timothy Lee Russell -

Taxes may not have been a motivator for you to vote for Obama, but you would be either naive or dishonest to suggest that maximum monetary compensation is not what you seek for your services.

Your paycheck is going to be less than it should be because you'll be taxed more. Your retirement and investments will shrink, as they have already, due to the policies of this president-elect.

In the eyes of Obama you, as a technology professional, make too much money and he will take it, and there are other, less-fortunate people out there that he will give your money to.
Robert
Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:10:55 PM UTC
@Robert

I don't think that I am naive or dishonest. You and I just have a different value system on which we base our opinions and judgments.

Paying a little more tax would not hurt me financially in a significant way. When I write a check to the government every year, it really doesn't bother me. For the most part, the money I pay in taxes goes towards providing important services that we, as a people, have decided government needs to provide.

I think it is important to help our family, friends, and even those less-fortunate than ourselves succeed and prosper.








Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:33:22 PM UTC
Timothy Lee Russell -

You yourself taking from your own abundance and giving to someone else.

A government deciding you have too much and taking what is rightfully yours to give to someone else.

There is a big difference.

Robert
Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:03:51 PM UTC
When people receive state-administered welfare funded through mandatory extraction from those who are better off, they usually feel entitled. At best, this "doesn't bother" the "giver".

When people receive compassionate assistance from charities funded through voluntary giving, they usually feel blessed and grateful. The giver is also emotionally rewarded for seeing improvement in someone else's life as a result of their *voluntary* sacrifice. Additionally, the administration of this kind of assistance is usually much more efficient than programs undertaken by the government.

There was an excellent case study done on this phenomenon a while back....I think they called it Hurricane Katrina.
Joe the Programmer
Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:42:37 PM UTC
@Robert

Cheers -- we'll just have to agree to disagree, as it's time for me to get back to work.
Friday, November 07, 2008 11:09:52 PM UTC
I know Obama is all for Baby Smashing...(said grimly).

Seriously, I don't get it. Babies have been born and been perfectly healthy at TWENTY-ONE weeks. That's JUST over half way through a pregnancy. Abortion is allowed generally up to the second the baby is born. I honestly don't get it. It reminds me of that Simpsons bit: "When I'm in here, I'm a blob and not person. When I'm out here, I'm a person. Blob. Person. Blob. Person. It literally depends on my latitude and longitude in comparison with my mother's." Anyway, this is a roundabout way of saying the reason why I am upset about Obama being elected is because I believe he supports murdering children. Oh, I'm sure he doesn't believe that's what it is, but *I* do. Now Joe Biden on the other hand says he DOES believe life begins at conception but he will STILL vote to allow abortion. You know that one, I really don't get. Anyway...
Tim
Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:44:10 PM UTC
@Tim

I hope for the consistency of your argument that you are anti-war, against the death penalty, and a vegan.

I'm always surprised by the people that I talk to who claim to be "pro-life" who seem to be fine with letting the kid grow up to be 18 so that he can get killed fighting some pointless war.
Monday, November 10, 2008 3:32:37 AM UTC
My position is that MURDER is wrong. I define murder as the intentional taking of innocent human life. I am against the intentional taking of innocent human life...always. I would hope everyone could get on board with that.
Tim
Monday, November 10, 2008 5:37:45 PM UTC
@Tim

Once you start tacking conditions on, such as "innocent" human life...it all gets a bit sticky doesn't it.

Who decides who is innocent?

In my opinion, at minimum, abortion needs to be available in the case of incest or rape. Hopefully, you can understand why women (and the men who agree with them) are offended by your suggestion that it is your right to legislate control over their bodies.

Also, do you eat meat? If you do, you are raising animals for the sole purpose of murdering them.

Still, I will say that I think that I understand your feelings on this -- as I feel a sense of institutional guilt that approximately 95,000 Iraqi civilians, men, women, and children have died due to the United States government's actions in Iraq.

Monday, November 10, 2008 7:35:47 PM UTC
Abortion isn't chosen because of the result of rape or incest. Abortion is chosen out of convenience to the woman who doesn't want to give birth or doesn't want a child. Abortion facilitates the freedom to have sex without the consequences.

The "incest or rape" argument and the phantom "right to an abortion" (no such right exists) are just cover for the real motivation behind abortion.
Robert
Monday, November 10, 2008 9:57:18 PM UTC
@Robert

Actually, in the United States, women do have the right to abort a pregnancy.

It's a right that is just as real as your right to free speech.
Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:24:07 AM UTC
Congratulations America United States (America is the name of the continent, not the country).
Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:35:45 AM UTC
"In my opinion, at minimum, abortion needs to be available in the case of incest or rape. Hopefully, you can understand why women (and the men who agree with them) are offended by your suggestion that it is your right to legislate control over their bodies."

Of course I understand that is their feeling. And what THEY should understand is that I don't believe that the child is THEIR body. It's inside of them, but it's not THEIR body. Do you agree that abortion should be allowed up to birth (and including partial birth for that matter?). I think that it's pretty clear that if it's a baby when it's delivered, it's a baby right before it's delivered. It doesn't change the nature of the thing. As for who decides who is innocent, you're right, you have to make judgment calls on some of these things. That's ethics. But let's not try arguing that the unborn baby may not be innocent. Surely they haven't committed any crime.


"Actually, in the United States, women do have the right to abort a pregnancy.

It's a right that is just as real as your right to free speech."

Do you agree that before slavery was outlawed that the right to own a slave was just as real as the right to free speech?
Tim
Thursday, November 13, 2008 4:52:27 AM UTC
@Tim

You make some really good points.

Of course, in a perfect world, abortion would be unnecessary but this is a not a perfect world and if history has anything to show us, it will never be. I believe that we should have lofty ideals that we work towards but we must also be grounded in reality.

No, I do not believe that slavery is morally justifiable regardless of what the laws of a government might be. So your point as to the morality of a government's law is well taken.

However, it is interesting that you use the analogy of slavery. Have you read Margaret Atwood's book, A Handmaid's Tale? In that novel, she depicts a ruling class who use women of a lower caste as slaves, both sexual and procreative.

There are many, including myself, who believe that removing the ability for a woman to have an abortion is tantamount to reproductive subjugation.
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Disclaimer: The opinions expressed herein are my own personal opinions and do not represent my employer's view in any way.