Scott Hanselman

Visual Studio 2010 Beta 2

October 19, '09 Comments [46] Posted in ASP.NET | ASP.NET Ajax | ASP.NET Dynamic Data | ASP.NET MVC | Learning .NET | Microsoft | MSDN | Programming
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VS_v_rgbLots of big stuff happening this week. Today Visual Studio 2010 Beta 2 is available to MSDN Subscribers and it'll be available for everyone on Wednesday.

I'm running Beta 2 on all my machines now and really digging it. It's much faster than Beta 1 and I'm doing all my work in it now. It's come a long way and I'm really impressed at the polish.

.NET 4

This is a big deal. This isn't ".NET 3.6" - there are a lot of improvements of .NET 4, and it's not just "pile on a bunch of features so you get overwhelmed." I've been working with and talking to many of the teams involved and even though it's a cheesy thing to say, this is a really customer-focused release.

Shouldn't every release be that way? Sure, and in this case there's a really clear focus on, as I like to say, "making the Legos the right size." This is as much about tightening screws as it is about adding new features.

There's more goodness that I can put in one post, but some personal favorite highlights are:

  • Quicker to Install - A smaller Client Profile with a much smaller initial download (down to 0.8 megs from 2.8) for bootstrapping .NET client apps faster than ever)
  • Side by Side - .NET 4 is a side-by-side release that doesn't auto-promote, meaning you won't break existing apps and you can have .NET 2.0, 3.5 and 4 apps on the same machine, happily.
    • Side-by-side CLR support for managed add-ins inside of apps like Explorer or Outlook. Again, new and existing apps in the same process, chillin'.
    • For more details on Application Compatibilty, check out the AppCompat Walkthrough for .NET 4 on MSDN.
  • Dynamic Language Support - The DLR (Dynamic language runtime) ships built-in with .NET 4 so you can mix-and-match your solutions and pick the best language (or languages) amongst C# and VB.NET as well as F#, IronPython and IronRuby. This includes better support for COM (yes, COM! People do use COM and it's even easier with the new dynamic keyword in C# these days.)
  • More Web Standards Support - Better support for WS-* and REST making interop easier. (I love ADO.NET Data Services, but you know that already, Dear Reader. I'm a bit of a RESTafarian, these days.)
  • Plugins Galore - Visual Studio 2010 uses MEF and WPF to enable a whole new world of clean managed extensions as well as an Online Gallery (there's an extension for that!)
  • Multi-Framework Multi-targeting - You can't really overestimate how useful this is, but a picture is worth a thousand words. You can code all your apps in all your organization's frameworks with the same IDE:
    WindowClipping (3)

Keep an eye on the blogs this week as the various teams talk about their favorite features.

On the ASP.NET 4 side:

Oh, yes, one other thing…

Fresh Look

SplashScreen

WindowClipping

You may notice a few things in the new Splash Screen above. There's a new Visual Studio logo that goes nicely as well as a new logo for MSDN. You probably heard that we launched a new MSDN this weekend and today we add the new logo and background. This new MSDN is the beginning of a more agile, community focused MSDN and you should expect to see and hear of cool stuff coming from the team, often, in the months to come. Of note will be the new MSDN Lightweight view, soon to be the default view for the library. 

In the coming weeks I'll dig into more details on the these new things and how they work together:

  • Visual Studio 2010 and .NET 4
  • Windows 7
  • Microsoft Developer Network

Enjoy! Also, be sure to check out Soma's blog post and go get Visual Studio 2010 and .NET Framework 4 Beta 2 as soon as you can!

About Scott

Scott Hanselman is a former professor, former Chief Architect in finance, now speaker, consultant, father, diabetic, and Microsoft employee. I am a failed stand-up comic, a cornrower, and a book author.

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Monday, October 19, 2009 4:44:09 PM UTC
Wow I really like the new VS logo, but I sort of miss the old Blue Green, Yellow and Red logo now. I think we need to have a moment of silence.
Monday, October 19, 2009 4:45:41 PM UTC
Finally! I am really looking forward to Beta 2. Here's hoping the performance issues from Beta 1 have been mostly ironed out.

By the way Scott, you know I'm a big fan, but I like you better when you're not spouting the marketing hype.

"You can code all your apps in all your organization's frameworks with the same IDE:"

And yet there is no ".NET Framework 1.1" in that list. As much as I wish that my organization was willing to upgrade all of our applications, its just not going to happen, probably ever. About half the software group has to keep Visual Studio 2003 around for the applications they support. We can't even get rid of VS 2005 since, although 2008 targets 2.0, the reporting projects don't work with Reporting Services 2005. The end result is that despite all of the effort put into multi-targeting, I still have to keep 3 versions of VS installed on my machine, and 2010 will make it 4.
Monday, October 19, 2009 5:39:45 PM UTC
Wow! It's cool! What about Express Editions?
Monday, October 19, 2009 5:44:54 PM UTC
No info on Velocity?
Hector
Monday, October 19, 2009 5:52:19 PM UTC
Do you know if there will be an x64 version released soon?
Monday, October 19, 2009 6:05:18 PM UTC
Looks great...But have to wait till Wednesday...
Monday, October 19, 2009 6:26:58 PM UTC
Excellent. I've been using VS2010 Pro Beta 1 and have been impressed with it. I can't wait to check out Beta 2. Thanks for the info.
Monday, October 19, 2009 6:41:43 PM UTC
Can I install VS2008 and VS2010 B2 together? Some issues?
Monday, October 19, 2009 7:12:24 PM UTC
Scott I absolutely love the new logo, and I am very excited about 2010 it seems to be a much more performant (made up word?) and hardcore tool for developers. I am SO glad to see Microsoft finally get its feet again, I was worried during the past couple of years but it seems you guys are rolling now and back to cutting edge on most fronts.

Can't wait to give this a go, I will be installing first thing when I get home!!
Eric Malamisura
Monday, October 19, 2009 7:49:13 PM UTC
Oh no you didn't just scoop the Gu on this release announcement! ;)
Joe Chung
Monday, October 19, 2009 10:15:02 PM UTC
So I just started an ASP.NET Web Application and I immediately get warnings in aspx and masterpages, as you can see in this screenshot: http://blog.shynet.nl/WebApp.jpg

Validation ($SCHEMA$): Element 'h2' is not supported.

Other than that I am having a blast. It is much faster than Beta 1.
Monday, October 19, 2009 10:58:31 PM UTC
Great post!

I do have one teeny tiny correction... It's 'Lego' not 'Legos', just like you're 'Scott', not 'Scotts'. Just FYI, please ignore as necessary. :)
Tuesday, October 20, 2009 1:54:39 AM UTC
So the word was the new text rendering stack is meant to be in place for Beta 2 to address the blurry/fuzzy WPF font rendering issue, is this the case?
(which means I, as others no doubt will actually be inclined to start playing with 2010)
Tuesday, October 20, 2009 2:59:52 AM UTC
I like the old msdn logo, startup screen more...
the new color purple schema..is not very good..
Tuesday, October 20, 2009 5:17:58 AM UTC
Great stuff Scott :)

@brian_henderson twitted today that "In VS2010 B2, *Add New Reference* dialog is async, and pops on tab you want.. no UI block :) " We developer have been waiting for that for long time. Finally my life will be much easier and faster... Cool :D
ahmed
Tuesday, October 20, 2009 5:28:04 AM UTC
Looks nice, I'll have to blog this!
Tuesday, October 20, 2009 7:13:59 AM UTC
While I don't want to sound like a grump, I have to agree with some others.

New colour scheme and logo is... not fantastic. Maybe I'll get used to it, but I'm used to it being Developer Tool Orange.

I also understand WHY supporting .NET 1.1 on VS2010 isn't really feasable (or money spinning).
But it does mean I have to keep an XP VM fired up so I can run Visual Studio 2003 for the never ending maintenance work I need to do on older client projects. (Clients who see no reason to pay us to update the project to .NET vNext when there's other more important things to do with that time/budget)

Here's hoping the WPF support (and XAML Editing Capabilities) will pick up a little in VS2010 when cross-editing in Blend.
Not particularly happy that VS2008's XAML Editor breaks so easily when I do some basic editing in Blend.

(Post attempt #2...not sure if the first went)
Will Hughes
Tuesday, October 20, 2009 7:16:47 AM UTC
>> "Again, new and existing apps in the same process, chillin'."

Word.
Tuesday, October 20, 2009 8:09:36 AM UTC
Hey Scott, just wanted to point out that you have linked to the front page of soma's blog rather than a specific post so over time this link will rot. :)
Tuesday, October 20, 2009 8:22:21 AM UTC
I really appreciate the information about the the Microsoft visual studio 2010 beta.
Tuesday, October 20, 2009 8:46:25 AM UTC
I installed VS2010 beta 2 today and text editor looks nice like VS 2008, not blurry/fuzzy font like WPF or cleartyped. I think that ms abandoned the WPF render for the text editor. Or not? I dont know but performace is best.
Julian
Tuesday, October 20, 2009 11:03:38 AM UTC
Julian: It still uses WPF, but the text rendering stack in WPF itself was replaced.
Tuesday, October 20, 2009 11:41:29 AM UTC
Awesome product Microsoft is providing!

Can't wait to target Silverlight 2 and 3 with the same IDE, I'm waiting to see the new AJAX CDN and clean web.config, and the lighter template optimized for code.
You gotta be thrilling Scott because of the new Multi Monitor Support.

Awesome Product, Awesome new look for the MSDN, just think the search should look the same as your selection on the view, and that the code tabs shouldn't do a PostBack on the Page.

If you happen to know the Visual Studio 2010 developers send thanks from Brasil ;D
Tuesday, October 20, 2009 1:52:15 PM UTC
How does VS2010 Beta 2 play with VS2008? Any issues having them both installed on the same machine? I've got a new project just getting ready to go in the cooker and I'd love to use VS2010 to get it started. However, I'll still need VS2008 until the RTM of 2010 comes out.
Tuesday, October 20, 2009 2:36:24 PM UTC
To answer my own question, just ran across this on Scott Gu's post:

Side by Side Support with VS 2008

VS 2010 and .NET 4.0 can be installed side-by-side on the same machine as VS 2008 and .NET 3.5. You can install the Beta 2 version on a machine and it will not impact your existing VS 2008 / .NET 3.5 development.
Tuesday, October 20, 2009 3:07:02 PM UTC
And yet there is no ".NET Framework 1.1" in that list. As much as I wish that my organization was willing to upgrade all of our applications, its just not going to happen, probably ever. About half the software group has to keep Visual Studio 2003 around for the applications they support. We can't even get rid of VS 2005 since, although 2008 targets 2.0, the reporting projects don't work with Reporting Services 2005.


*Raises hand* --- Me too.
And the 1.1 means I need IIS installed too, which our security group despises and makes it a pain to get installed.
We just got 2008 a few months ago so 2010 won't be coming for a while, but one thing I was wondering is if all the SQL Server 2005 Business Intelligence projects will run in 2008, but it sounds like I have to keep 2005 installed for those.
ADB
Tuesday, October 20, 2009 4:11:58 PM UTC
Such a disappointment. It seems MS are reinventing the wheel...again. On a Windows XP 2GHz 2GB laptop (with no GPU to take advantage of WPF's rendering tech) text editor performance is still a disaster. If you can't scroll an editor window without the CPU being pegged at 100% then you've got some serious issues with your product. I don't care if the editor is more functional or extensible, all I care about is pounding out the code and for my IDE to get out of the way. In this regard, 2010 is a seriously regressive step :(

And >200MB to open a console app project? That's getting into Java IDE territory! ;)

At least the Help system's overhaul may be useful. The sluggishness of F1 in previous VS.NET products has meant that me and the majority of my colleagues abandoned offline help a couple of versions ago. Google + Stackoverflow are quicker and more accurate. Let's hope that the new MSDN reverses the trend.

Btw, how about just adding the .NET 4 stuff to 2008 as an add-on? There's absolutely nothing wrong with 2008 for the vast majority of users.
Dave R.
Tuesday, October 20, 2009 6:44:52 PM UTC
@Dave R.
There is something absolutely wrong with 2008 for a large number of users...crappy/non-existant multi monitor support. When I hear about .Net 4 with clean client ID's, easier dynamic data...I smile a little on the inside...but when I play with real multi monitor support...I squeal and start talking in a faster, higher pitch.

As far as WPF for the editor...the option to go text would be a welcome addition, but then I start thinking about all the possibilities...which makes me wonder what DevExpress has up their sleeves.

Ryan
Ryan Smith
Tuesday, October 20, 2009 7:53:24 PM UTC
Where is the best place to send our feedback?

I just installed beta 2 and I'm super disappointed in the multi-monitor support. It was pumped up big time and it is almost non-existent. You can't have a tabbed document window on a separate monitor (only individual windows) and you can't have the aspx designer and source on separate monitors. #epicfail
Wednesday, October 21, 2009 12:44:12 AM UTC
good news, .net 4.0 will be coming soon
Wednesday, October 21, 2009 3:22:52 PM UTC
how to install beta 2 for offline are you suggest me
i already have a msdn subscribtion but i not know abut it
how can i use subscribtion if i already install beta 1 then how to upgrade our vs to beta 2
Wednesday, October 21, 2009 3:24:17 PM UTC
Wednesday, October 21, 2009 8:15:14 PM UTC
1) Express Editions are available (per Tony Goodhew in the post at http://blogs.msdn.com/somasegar/archive/2009/10/19/announcing-visual-studio-2010-and-net-fx-4-beta-2.aspx)

2) 64-bit VS 2010 will NOT be available (per Rico Marianis in the post at http://blogs.msdn.com/ricom/archive/2009/06/10/visual-studio-why-is-there-no-64-bit-version.aspx)
Wednesday, October 21, 2009 8:26:16 PM UTC
Express editions are at
http://www.microsoft.com/express/future/
Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:17:23 AM UTC
I get the same issues as Marcel Wijnands.

Something like the example below for every HTML element.
Validation ($SCHEMA$): Element 'html' is not supported.


Anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

Rich
Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:34:45 AM UTC
Sorted, you need to explicitly select a schema from the HTML Source Editing toolbar.
Friday, October 23, 2009 3:13:46 PM UTC
@Ryan - sorry, I should have qualified my statement. I think it's fine for MS to be addressing all the issues with 2008 for enterprise customers with massive projects etc. However, ironically it seems to have come at the expense of editor performance. When memory pressure has been worsened significantly, and with sluggishness in the IDE replacing a mostly snappy 2008 (well, for sensibly sized files anyway), it seems like moving more and more to a managed code + WPF product wasn't wise. It's also obvious that WPF isn't mature enough to carry this off - the blurry text issue from Beta 1 is a case in point (they had to write a new text rendering tech for the new version of WPF to address this!).
Dave R.
Saturday, October 24, 2009 2:24:18 AM UTC
Whatever you do, don't disconnect an external drive while installing VS beta 2 - even though it shouldn't matter, the download took ages, during which I moved my laptop and disconnected my F: drive. Then the installation failed because F: was not a valid drive.
Saturday, October 24, 2009 9:53:18 PM UTC
Wow, this is disappointing stuff. I just fired up VB6 for an old app I still need to support the other day and wow, the editor was up and snappy in seconds. I could not out type it, and methods and functionality where there where I needed them. I now experience 2005 seeming fast by 2008 standards. Please, MS, bring back the light fast editor. Don't eat my quad core machine.
Monday, October 26, 2009 5:34:16 PM UTC
@configurator - This is correct. What happens is that the download looks for the largest volume and uses that for the temp. The same effect can happen when you install from a CD rom drive and open the drive during install.
Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:57:27 PM UTC
Hey Scott, you wouldn't know if when debugging and/or attempting to to Quick Watch or Immediate Window lambda expressions we will ever see the removal of this message in favour of actual results:

"Expression cannot contain lambda expressions"

? I tried in Visual Studio 2010 Beta2, with hope this might have changed, but unfortunately not :( I would like to know if this is an impossible task, or you would know where I could ask, but it seems to me if the compiler can work out what I'm saying, then so should the Immediate Window.

GONeale
Friday, November 06, 2009 9:14:21 AM UTC
Hello scott who version are best for me i am web developer & who version of Beta best for me like ultimate , premium , professioal give me answer fastly then i try it
Sunday, November 22, 2009 10:55:51 PM UTC
On my Vista machine the VS 2010 is painfully slow, even slower than VS 2008
Monday, November 23, 2009 10:40:43 PM UTC
Up and running on VS 2010 Beta 2. Installed side by side with VS2008. Already I'm not liking to develop in 2008 any more than I have to. Love the WPF interface. Love the Data tools. Love the SharePoint feature set.
Only bug was the HTML 'Validation ($SCHEMA$) does not support element' which you can fix with Tools->Import and Export Settings - Reset all settings'.

Best IDE upgrade since VS 6.0 -> VS 2000. Probably better than that one - best ever.
Dave Milner
Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:37:32 PM UTC
Ugh. Given that in a corporate environment multi-monitor means 1 monitor on the integrated graphics and the 2nd on the real video card the WPF interface is only usable on my 2nd screen. It's great there but so slow as to be extremely frustrating on the integrated GPU - effectively making the whole idea of multi-monitor support useless.
Andrew
Monday, January 18, 2010 2:00:40 PM UTC
VS 2010 Beta 2 is a classic, it is really great to work with. Thanks Scott for the info. :-)
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Disclaimer: The opinions expressed herein are my own personal opinions and do not represent my employer's view in any way.