Scott Hanselman

Hanselminutes Podcast 105 - Rocky Lhotka on Data Access Mania, LINQ and CSLA.NET

March 28, 2008 Comment on this post [7] Posted in LINQ | Podcast | Programming
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rocky0005-120wMy one-hundred-and-fifth podcast is up. I got a chance to sit down with Rocky Lhotka (blog) and talk about the direction data access, business objects and multi-tier development are going, as well as where he things LINQ fits into his view of CSLA.NET. CSLA.NET is Rocky's application development framework that supports his multi-tiered view of business application development.

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Do also remember the complete archives are always up and they have PDF Transcripts, a little known feature that show up a few weeks after each show.

Telerik is our sponsor for this show.

Check out their UI Suite of controls for ASP.NET. It's very hardcore stuff. One of the things I appreciate about Telerik is their commitment to completeness. For example, they have a page about their Right-to-Left support while some vendors have zero support, or don't bother testing. They also are committed to XHTML compliance and publish their roadmap. It's nice when your controls vendor is very transparent.

As I've said before this show comes to you with the audio expertise and stewardship of Carl Franklin. The name comes from Travis Illig, but the goal of the show is simple. Avoid wasting the listener's time. (and make the commute less boring)

Enjoy. Who knows what'll happen in the next show?

About Scott

Scott Hanselman is a former professor, former Chief Architect in finance, now speaker, consultant, father, diabetic, and Microsoft employee. He is a failed stand-up comic, a cornrower, and a book author.

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March 28, 2008 9:41
These announcements seem to be out of sync with the actual podcasts?!?
I listened to the Rocky Lhotka show a few days ago and iTunes says the new one is on outsourcing...

PS. What a lousy idea to interrupt the show with a commercial. Of course if that's what it takes to keep the show running we must live with it, but it really breaks the conversation and makes me loose the line of thinking you so nicely build up during an interview.
March 28, 2008 10:41
It was great to hear Rocky's take on LINQ to SQL. I've found it frustrating that so many demos treat the LINQ to SQL "objects" as first-class objects to be bound to and used by the UI. Rocky's description of them as nothing more than a representation of the data, to be copied into the "real" objects, really gelled with me.
March 28, 2008 21:09

Money interview with Rocky, I've read a couple of his books and always appreciated his "object as center of the universe" (as he put it) perspective. He's had a heavy influence on my designs, and it's always worth while to pause when new technologies like linq come out and wonder "where does this belong?".

I really enjoyed the part of the conversation that floated around the creation of "Conceptual" objects, that is those that are driven by use cases and are often not 1:1 with the data store. The bitch of the matter is that it's basically impossible to generate these objects (at least w/out some pretty detailed mapping files), and so you inevitably end up getting your hands dirty and writing some code. I have to admit I'm a huge fan of code generation (CodeSmith in particular) and have often had to compromise with a model that is a lot more 1:1 with the datastore then I would like it to be.

I'm hoping that the Entity Framework finally solves this, I've been playing with the beta and it's promising. If they would just include a rule validation engine and authorization engine in the generated code (or allow you to map them in with xml attributes in mapping files) I think we might finally get the silver bullet of ORM (at least IMO).

Keep 'em coming man I really enjoyed this one.

March 28, 2008 22:45
Damn you, Hanselman! You've made a podcast addict out of me!
April 04, 2008 12:59
I'm a longtime listener, and really enjoy the podcasts, however I am getting very close to unsubscribing because of the advert interruptions in the middle of the show -- they totally destroy the flow :-(
April 04, 2008 18:31
I really enjoyed this podcast, Scott. I'm a relatively new Hanselminutes listener, and this is one of my favorites so far. I've heard Rocky speak at a couple of VSLive events and enjoyed his talks. I found the interaction between the two of you very interesting. He comes across as more of the old-school kind of guy who seizes new technology and bolts it on to his existing framework. I thought you made some valid points about the case for using MVC and questioning where CSLA .NET fits into that.

That being said, I do think there are cases where CSLA would be a great tool.

Keep up the great work!
April 14, 2008 22:34
Not a big fan of Rocky myself... the whole CSLA approach just rubs me the wrong way. It doesn't fit at all in a service oriented world... Of course, maybe that's because I'm working with a company right now that totally bought into CSLA and Rocky's approach, hired a few consultants from Magenic, and ended up with an impossible to maintain code base full of bloat and questionable practices. Admittedly, CSLA wasn't the only problem, but it definitely contributed to some very poor archectural decisions and massive memory problems.

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Disclaimer: The opinions expressed herein are my own personal opinions and do not represent my employer's view in any way.